Dining Through Time

We sit down with Erchen Chang, co-founder and creative director of BAO to discuss how her approach to food has changed through her lifetime and how she hopes to become “a specialist in Grandmother cooking” when she gets older.

Words by Danielle Pender

My first experience of BAO came whilst looking for a lunch spot in Soho with a friend, “Have you been to BAO?” she asked, “It’s always packed, and it’s amazing.” This statement turned out to be the perfect way to sum BAO up. 

We waited in line, we ate our fluffy explosions of deliciousness, and it’s been one of my favourite places to eat ever since. Over the last five years, the BAOverse has expanded from Soho to over six other locations across London without ever running the risk of feeling like a soulless chain. Each restaurant is as fun and individual as the next whilst they all share the unmistakable markers of being part of the BAO family. No matter which location you choose, it feels like a special event; the signature fluffy bao buns, noodles and grilled dishes are insanely tasty and then there’s the care and attention that goes into every detail. From the artful concepts behind each individual spot to the ceramics inspired by the Japanese films of Yasujirō Ozu—I really don’t know another family of restaurants that are so beautifully and thoughtfully executed. 

When we thought of putting together a food-inspired edition, I knew there was one person we had to include – Erchen Chang, co-founder and creative director of BAO. Originally from Taiwan, Erchen studied at the Slade school of fine art, where her work revolved around performance and installation and where she went on to develop her final art project titled, Rules To Be A Lonely Man into the concept behind the first BAO restaurant in Soho (which had existed as a market stall and six-seater shack before the first permanent space). The concept revolves around the actions and appetite of a lonely salaryman and can be traced through the small details of the restaurant, from the single diner seats to the whiskey shelf. 

Erchen embodies BAO; she’s fun, intelligent, and thoughtful with a passion for BAO. When we first met, she’d just given birth to her first child and told me about a special broth her in-laws were making for her as she recovered. The broth, made from a recipe crafted over generations, was perfectly designed to restore and nourish a woman’s post-partum body. That first meeting inspired this conversation where we further explore how Erchen’s eating habits have changed throughout her life. It’s a personal exploration of food across many cultures and ages touching on the food of her childhood in Taiwan, her adolescence in the UK, her eating rituals as a restaurateur, the influence of her grandparents and how she hopes to become “a specialist in Grandmother cooking” when she gets older. 

Danielle Pender: So, let’s start with the food of your childhood. What were your favourite things to eat when you were younger?

Erchen Chang: I would go to restaurants with my parents, and we’d have family meals at home, but I’d say I was mainly eating traditional Taiwanese food. A lot of small dishes, which is, I guess, why BAO has so many small dishes because that’s what I grew up eating.

One thing that really stands out is an Oyster Vermicelli with a bonito soup base that I used to have for breakfast before I got the bus to school in the morning. I’d have minced garlic on the top of the noodles. It was this savoury dish that was big in flavour, but it would set me up for the whole day. I really miss that. People don’t eat like that in the morning, here in the UK, except for maybe an English Breakfast, which is why I love it so much as it connects to that large, savoury breakfast. 

DP: It makes sense to eat like that for breakfast because you have the whole day ahead of you; you need the energy. So what else were you eating as a child? What was being served at home?

EC: One thing we did regularly was a Sunday breakfast. My mom and my grandma would cook a very plain congee, with grated sweet potato in it, and then they’d prepare around ten other small dishes to go with it. There’ll be pickles and ferments, some tofu dishes, and some salted fish that works really well with this soupy form of congee. Everybody would come together when we’re still a little bit sleepy, but then the warm hot meal would wake us up slowly over some family chatter.

DP: That's such a nice way to come together with family. Were your eating habits adventurous as a kid? Do you think kids naturally go through a “picky stage”?

EC: My parents ran a company together, and they used to take us out regularly when they were treating partners or taking clients out, so I was exposed to all kinds of dishes and types of food from a young age. I was always curious about it all; I’d try everything. 

DP: And now that you've had a baby, have you thought about how you’ll approach feeding your own child?

EC: I'm going to try my best to give him as much variety as possible because I don't want to have a picky eater. Even though sometimes your body tells you what you want to eat, I wouldn't force it, but I think I will try my best to be providing a wide range of things as possible so that they can choose from. I guess the same way I was brought up. 

DP: Are there things you want to pass on to your son about the process of cooking, any particular techniques?

EC: Yeah, through working with food, I’ve started to think about the idea of fresh and the idea of processed food. Before I got into this business, I loved the food I grew up with and didn't analyse it too much. But now, for example, I look at the process of broth making and really understand the intricacies of it. When you’re boiling the broth, you have to skim off all the fat and scum again and again until you have this really clear broth. Sometimes you can miss bits or boil the fat into the broth; it might look relatively clear when you’re making it, but when you eat it you can taste it at the back of your throat, so it’s not 100% pure. I want my child to have the ability to understand the nuance of flavours and the processes that drive them and to be able to appreciate when something is great. 

DP: And what about adolescence? This can be a tricky time for many young people as their relationship with food and their body changes. How was that stage for you? 

EC: I didn’t find that stage too difficult. I used to hang out with my grandparents a lot, so I had quite an old man's taste. I remember being around 13, watching TV at my grandma’s house and eating grilled mackerel; it was salty and fatty, something older people ate, and I finished the whole thing on my own. Looking back, it was like, “wow, somebody get her a beer or something” I was literally an old man! 

And I remember another dish that was my grandpa's favourite. It was this perfect poached goose. It was brined before and then poached, and the collagen and fat sit between the skin and the meat like a layer of jelly. We’d eat this together as a four o’clock snack. These kinds of things are in my memory of being a teenage girl. 

DP: It’s so good to have had that positive influence at that age, just enjoying food for the pleasure it brings in an uncomplicated way. You came to the UK at 14; how did that experience shape your approach to food and your tastes?

EC: I went to a boarding school, and it suddenly opened up to a whole new world. I was so excited. There was this cold salad bar where you could pick whatever you wanted, and I was obsessed with the coronation chicken, this kind of pale yellow, creamy looking chicken. None of the other girls would touch it but I had to know what it was. 

DP: At college, you developed your major project Rules To Be A Lonely Man - the premise of which influenced all the BAO restaurants. Who is this lonely man? Where did the idea come from?

EC: At that time, I was really interested in Japanese B movies from the 60s. All the men in these films are so masculine. They’re on a mission to do something, maybe they’re a gangster, or have unavoidable reasons to leave their lovers behind. And they usually end up searching for their souls somewhere picturesque. I was really interested in their extreme emotions. I thought to myself, “why so sad, so melancholic?” These macho characters are so lonely, and I find them amusing. But I guess we’re all the same, we’re all kind of lonely, and we think we’re the only ones, so the idea started from there. 

After college, I went on a road trip around Taiwan with my husband and sister-in-law. We were eating BAOs and absolutely loved them, thinking we have to crack this recipe. We worked on developing our own BAO recipe when we were doing the street food and then when it came to opening the first restaurant, we wanted to bring together our  approach to the food. We wanted to have a unique perspective on what we could bring to the table, how the food is presented, and how the restaurant should look – it should all come through our special lens.

DP: Starting and running a restaurant, and now many restaurants, is a stressful business. How do your eating habits change when you’re stressed or busy with work?

EC: It's really bad. People think that those who run restaurants eat amazing food, but it's actually the opposite. When you're in it, you're running around sweating like crazy to make it perfect for everyone else. I definitely went through a period where I lost a lot of weight very quickly, and then it was like a burst of revenge, and I was like, “No! I want to eat everything. I want to make myself happy.” Now that we've got a few restaurants, we have managers and chefs in place, so I’m in a more stable rhythm, which is nice.

DP: You mentioned your family's Sunday breakfast ritual. Do you have any food rituals you like to fit into your schedule?

EC: Yes, I’ve had quite a few. When we were doing street food and living in Camberwell, we’d be making BAO all day in the house, then we’d go to the Silk Road, a Chinese restaurant on Camberwell Road, and create our own menu options. We ordered so much food and would really treat ourselves. And then, during the Soho period, I would sneak to Rose Bakery and I'd treat myself to a black coffee and their iconic carrot cake. Or I would go to Bruno's on Wardour Street for an English breakfast with bread and butter, making the whole thing perfect. 

I used to love to go to Jen's Cafe for dumplings in between shifts, at like three, four o'clock when they're not busy. I’d go there for a walk to get some fresh air and some dumplings. 

Another thing I loved to do was go to Andrew Edmund on a Wednesday or Thursday night, sipping wine after a busy day and giving myself that break. Basically, just choosing that perfect meal for the perfect moment. 

DP: The last time we chatted you mentioned the broth your in-laws were making for you when you came out of hospital. Can you tell me about that again, how did they make it?

EC: Yes, I was already on a routine of a broth a day that I was making for myself. It’s a broth that contains different types of Chinese medicine, dry roots, herbs etc. Each week is a different blend to help with the different stages your body goes through after you’ve given birth, so the first week is designed to get rid of any impurities your body is holding onto, the second week is about boosting your metabolism and then the third and fourth week are about boosting your blood, your fat and collagen so you can build your strength back up.

My in-laws came to stay and they had prepared a few different remedies. One was this chicken essence; it’s a double-boiled chicken broth, where a chicken is cooked without water and the essence drips down to form around half a cup. The other was a black vinegar, ginger and trotter dish, it looks very scary but because they use so much braised ginger it provides heat for your body, the vinegar breaks down the trotter and gives you calcium and the ginger gives you vitamin C to build your body back up.  

This knowledge has been passed on from generation to generation and I respect it but I also challenge it, I do my own research and ask questions.  

DP: You mentioned your grandparents and your wider family are a big influence on how you eat. What do you think you’ll take from them as you get older? How do you want to eat in your later years?

EC: One of the main things is that my family always know when it’s the best time to eat a certain thing. For example, my mom will do a bulk order of pomelo for the whole family every year. She gets them from a place where they’re really sweet and juicy at a certain time of year, it’s a beautiful way to eat in line with the seasons and they do it so well. 

My husband's grandparents bake a lot of Cantonese bread, they’ll make it in bulk and then share it with their neighbours. Then the neighbours will each take turns to make something and they’ll share with everyone. It's so good because they’re not only preparing really fresh food, but they’re sharing and connecting with everyone. I think that's a good way to be old because you’re not lonely and you just feel the love.

Read the other stories in our FOOD edition.